Introduction

Award-winning chef Sally Abé grew up in Mansfield, Nottinghamshire. After starting a hospitality business management degree at Sheffield Hallam University, she was immersed in the world of professional kitchens in 2007 during a work placement in London – and has gone on to become one of the UK’s leading chefs.

She has worked at The Savoy, Gordon Ramsay at Claridges, and spent several years as sous-chef at two-Michelin-starred The Ledbury in Notting Hill (now three stars), with celebrated chef Brett Graham. Sally also worked at Elystan Street, before becoming head chef at the Harwood Arms gastropub, retaining its Michelin star.

In 2021, Abé joined Conrad London St. James hotel as consultant chef, and opened The Pem restaurant, which showcases and elevates the rich heritage of British cuisine and ingredients.

Sally Abé is a passionate advocate for young female chefs; she recently announced the appointment of Jennifer Collins as head chef at newly-refurbished The Pem.

Abé's memoir, A Woman's Place is in the Kitchen: Dispatches From Behind the Pass, is published by Little, Brown on 6 June 2024

Where does your passion for food come from, and when did you start cooking?

I moved to Sheffield when I was 18, on a bit of a whim. I wasn't really sure what I wanted to do. I was working in a dull job and I just got really into cooking at home. Then I decided to see if it was something I could make a career out of. My mum gave me Delia Smith’s Vegetarian [cookbook], and I wasn’t vegetarian but I was skint, so it made sense to do meat-free meals. I cooked my way through there, and that's where it all started.

When did you decide to do the hospitality course at Sheffield Hallam University?

I'd already done A-levels, so they suggested I look into the Hospitality Business Management degree. I was just kind of rolling with it, really!

How did you get the opportunity to go down to London to work at The Savoy?

I got a placement with the Gordon Ramsay group. I was supposed to do six months in the kitchen and six months front-of-house, but I just got into the kitchen and thought, “I’m going to keep doing this”.

How soon did you decide that a professional kitchen was where you wanted to be?

Within a couple of months. I'm quite a stubborn person, so once I got there I just wanted to learn everything and it used to really frustrate me when I couldn't dice the vegetables perfectly or whatever it was. So, I would make little games for myself every day, just to get quicker and better. I think I just got completely immersed in it and then didn’t want to leave. By the time it came to looking at going back to University, I’d moved over to Claridges, because The Savoy was closing for its refurbishment. Basically, one of my sous-chefs talked me into staying.

Did you get used to the pace of the kitchen quite quickly, then?

I think you have to have a certain sort of mentality in one of those kitchens. You just have to be able to let things run off of you. You can't dwell on what's happened the previous day or even the previous service. It was very intense, very high pressure and I loved all of that. The only thing that was ever a struggle, and it's a struggle for every person, were the hours. I don’t do those hours anymore. I think that the industry is changing, and it is a slow change but it is changing.

What is the biggest challenge that you have faced, and how have you overcome or managed that?

I think one of my biggest challenges was my confidence. There was quite a big period where I doubted myself; my ability, what I was doing, and what I wanted to achieve. It wasn’t easy, but I did overcome it. Through going to therapy and taking stock of everything that I had achieved, I was able to rationalise in my brain that I actually do deserve to be here. I think I use that as a sort of starting block for every new task that I take on.

Do you feel a sense of responsibility to help more women to break into the sector? Do you think things are changing in this area?

This kind of change is not something that will happen overnight, but it's certainly something that I think is improving. For me, it's important to keep empowering women and promoting women and hiring women and training them up, so that they can go on and believe in themselves to do bigger and better things. My kitchen team is almost all female. It's important to me to make sure that they get the right foot in the door for whatever it is they want to achieve in their career.

We did a series of events for International Women's Day in March. We invited female students from Westminster Kingsway College to come and cook with us, just to get a bit of experience. They loved it. I think it was refreshing for them to be in a female- led kitchen, as well. I’m talking to the College about what we can do to continue that relationship.

Why did you name The Pem after suffragette Emily Wilding Davison, in particular?

We’re in Westminster, right in the thick of everything political, and we wanted to dedicate it to strong women. Emily Wilding is one that stuck out for me, not just because she tragically died at the Epsom Derby [June, 1913], but she also hid in the Houses of the Parliament on the night of the [1911] Census. She was a proper rebel, and that really resonated with me.

What advice would you give to a young woman aspiring to be a chef today, or perhaps also someone looking to change careers?

First of all, don't be afraid to ask. I've got an apprentice who sent me a message on Instagram. Had she not had the courage to do that then she wouldn’t have got the answer. The worst someone can say is “no”, so just take that leap of faith.

Secondly, there's so many great places to work out there now, with amazing bosses, companies, structures and cultures, that if you get somewhere and it's not the way you want it to be, and you're not being treated how you think is fair, then don't stay. I think [it’s about] just finding the place that’s right for you. And then, once you do get in the door, ask lots of questions.

How has restaurant work changed compared to when you started in 2007?

An interesting thing I’m seeing is that, before, it used to be that the only good restaurants were fine dining Michelin-star restaurants, whereas now we've got a plethora of restaurants that span many cuisines and many echelons of dining. It could be a casual meal, it could be some fried chicken, but it's the best fried chicken. I think there's a lot more opportunity for young people now to work somewhere that is really good and well recognised that doesn't have to be, you know, two or three Michelin-star. I think that makes it much more accessible for people.

What kind of a difference has the recent kitchen refurbishment at The Pem made to your job?

We’ve definitely got much more freedom to create now. It's been really good. My new head chef, Jennifer Collins, started just before Christmas, so she’s been getting settled in and we’ve been going from strength to strength. I'm not just overseeing the Pem, but the Blue Boar Pub in the hotel now, as well. I work well under pressure, so I'm always looking for the next challenge, and for me it's about being able to work with Jenny [head chef, The Pem], and Tarryn, my sous-chef, and help them progress through running the kitchen between them. It's really nice to be able to give that opportunity to somebody else.

Can you tell us a bit about the menu concept at The Pem?

It’s a British menu. I find a lot of my recipe inspiration from really old cookbooks, and I think there's so much to be examined and explored. I really love retro classics, and bringing them back to life and putting my own twist on them. We’ve got a take on beef and oyster pie as a main course; sirloin with a little ox cheek and oyster pie on the side, which is obviously a million miles from what it would have been in Victorian times, but the flavours work. That's my heritage, so to nod to that is important to me.

How involved do you get with the wine list, and do you have any personal favourite wine styles?

When we're putting new dishes on the menu, we'll taste the food and the suggested wine together [with the sommelier team]. I’m a staunch Chardonnay girl myself, especially Californian Chardonnay.

If you had to pick a ‘desert island’ dish – one thing to take away with you – what would it be?

[Spoiler alert: reference to the end of the film Ratatouille]

It’s so hard. I think my favourite thing to eat in the whole wide world is mashed potato and gravy. There’s just something so comforting about mashed potato. That nostalgia element to food, for me, is the most important thing. Have you seen the film Ratatouille? At the end of the film, where [the dish] makes the critic cry because he goes back to being a child... that is really what food is all about.